Tuesday Open Thread

If you have a question for Dave Chandler, don't leave it here -- ask it in the comments section of the Q&A post. Otherwise, comment away on whatever you'd like here.

Comments

[jimmy]

Do you know that Republicans use Green Party candidates to beat Democrats? For instance, many of Ralph Nader's top donors in 2000 had maxed out to Bush. Do you see why the Republicans do this? And, do you understand that in a plurality, first-place winner-takes-all system, that splitting the left or right of the ideological spectrum only makes it harder to get people with similar views elected to office?

[Take it back]

Do you know that Democrats use Libertarian Party candidates to beat Republicans? Do you see why the Democrats do this? And, do you understand that in a plurality, first-place winner-takes-all system, that splitting the left or right of the ideological spectrum only makes it harder to get people with similar views elected to office?

I left the donor part out because that's the most innacurate things I've ever heard in my life. Most Green donors (that actually did switch allegiances) moved to the Dems, not the GOP.

Thanks for the newsflash.

[Hugo O'conor]

Wow, I wonder if that's how Bill Clinton got elected to the White House. You don't think Perot split the Republican vote and gave Clinton a victory with 43% of the vote, do you?

[Strider]

Nope. I am a Democrat and I voted for Perot.

[ohwilleke]

A reminder to all that today is election day in Denver, Aspen and many other municipalities across the state.

[John Boy]

But Strider, I'm sure you voted for Clinton in '96.

[Rick VanWie, Co-Chair, Denver Green Party]

The issue of the Greens being used by Republicans to defeat Democrats would be great if it were true. Why? Because we'd be swimming in money! With all of the money available to the GOP, I'm sure they'd fund us to the hilt!

Instead, the reality is that the Democrats spread this and other things to discourage people from voting for their principles, and forces Democratic voters to endorse their platform as it moves to the right.

Some other things spread by Dems:

1. Third party vote is a wasted vote: Once more the Dems are looking to force rank-and-file voters to vote for them as they shift ever farther to the right; this "manufactured consent" allows Dems like Hillary Clinton to move farther to the right on issues like abortion, and John Kerry to vote in support of the Iraq war. If rank-and-file voteers ignored this and caused the Democratic Party to lose races to Greens, the Dems would have no choice but to stop their shift to the right.

2. The Greens "stole" election 2000: The Dems have utilized resources to keep you focused on what happened in Florida. What they don't want you to think about is that Florida would have meant nothing if AL Gore had carried his home state of Tenessee. That's right, Gore's own constituents did not want him as President. This is a major embarassment to the Democrats. Florida is important, of course, but rank-and-file Democrats need to know that their own candidate failed to take his own home state.

If you really want peace, justice and equality, it is not going to come from the Clintons, Kerrys, Edwards, Zell Millers and the captains of industry that finance them.

IT WILL COME FROM YOU!

REGISTER GREEN TODAY!

Peace. Love and Understanding,

Rick VanWie
Co-Chair, Denver Green Party
303-478-1009, www.denvergreens.org

[DIAwingman]

If this info has already been posted and discussed on this blog, my apologies, but I couldn't find it.

COLORADO'S FREQUENT FLYERS
Here is a list of the cost of privately funded trips disclosed by Colorado's congressional delegation.

Senators
• Wayne Allard (R): disclosed two trips at a cost of $4,704.
• Ken Salazar (D): disclosed one trip at a cost of $999.

Representatives
• Bob Beauprez (R): disclosed two trips at a cost of $5,626.
• Diana DeGette (D): disclosed nine trips at a cost of $30,778.
• Joel Hefley (R): disclosed three trips at a cost of $5,704.
• Marilyn Musgrave (R): disclosed three trips at a cost of $10,775.
• John T. Salazar (D): No filings listed as of March 31, 2005.
• Tom Tancredo (R): disclosed seven trips at a cost of $39,854.
• Mark Udall (D): disclosed 12 trips at a cost of $70,672.

Source: Political/Moneyline.com

EDITORS' NOTE: Through no fault of DIAwingman and all the fault of ABCNews.com, the information referenced to Mark Udall's travel is incorrect - his travel actually came to $13,716 and the number above is for TOM Udall. Please continue reading this thread for an entertaining discussion on this topic. Colorado Pols

[Phoenix Rising]

In support of the Greens, most of the Republican money went to Nader in 2004, not to the Greens, who have never really drawn much monetary support from the majors. Neither have the Libertarians.

The true value of third parties will never be realized in this country until true voting reform is instituted. Systems such as Condorcet are needed to ensure voters that their vote counts, no matter what.

Suggestion to the Greens and Libertarians: run a large-scale Condorcet poll to see what effect it has among informed voters...

[Lawrence Pacheco]

Fact Check regarding the CO Frequent Flier post: DIAWingman has the wrong Udall. Mark Udall did not report $70,672 in trips. Mark Udall is listed as #336 reporting $13,716. Source: Politicalmoneyline.com.

[ql]

Wow DIA wingman just got the smackdown from Congressman Udall's Press Secretary! Try posting accurate information next time.

[Ed]

If you turn Salazar's trip cost upside down, it's 666.

[DIAwingman]

Lawrence Pacheco:
Fact Check back at ya--- numbers are posted on what might be considered a "credible source" ABC News. If you have a beef on behalf of your boss, you might wanna let them know.

Here is the URL to the main story:
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=706354&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

And, here is the URL to the "Trips disclosed by Colorado delegation"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=705086&page=1

Have fun!

[DIAwingman]

gl:
Bite me.

[curious]

does anyone know anything about a Coffman press conference tomorrow?? Any speculation on the subject?

[Love It]

I love this blog... no where else, man, no where else.

[Wings of Love]

"If you turn Salazar's trip cost upside down, it's 666."

So, does this mean Salazar is the Antichrist? It seems that way to me!

[ql]

DIA Wingman:

Hey buddy, you should have quoted your source as ABC News as opposed to Political/Moneyline.com then. Too bad for you. Its still your error and thus the smackdown was well deserved.

btw...the dentures having been bothering me, so no biting for me today. Sorry. :o)

[martinez]

DIA Wingman -- What about McInnis? I heard that he spent alot of time traveling overseas even after he announced retirement plans.

[Also Curious]

Coffman is holding a press confrence? Interesting. Anyone know what time? I bet he announces for SOS. Does anyone know if he can use his left over Gov money for that race? Who does he still have on his political team?

[DIAwingman]

gl:
You should check the URLs I provided before you get snarky with me. I sourced the information correctly but ABC News got it wrong when they posted it. The real issue is that Udall's press secretary might be more concerned that ABC News has posted "misinformation" on their website because it reaches a bigger audience than Political/Moneyline.com.

Martinez:
ABC News didn't include McGinnis in their Colorado delegation listing. But, I found it on Political/Moneyline.com

92. MCINNIS, SCOTT $54,353

[DIAwingman]

Martinez:
You have to check out this URL

http://www.politicalmoneyline.com/cgi-win/x_PrivateMember.exe?DoFn=H2CO03054

It will provide you with details of every trip made (or reported) by McGinnis.

Anyone curious about the travel details of their favorite Colorado delegate, Political/Moneyline.com is a must see. Go to the travel disclosure listings and find your target, click on their name and all is revealed.

[Alva Adams]

The trouble your relatives will cause you in Congress...

Just to clarify, the numbers on ABCNews.com about Mark Udall's trip are wrong. The correct amount is $13,716. Thanks to DIAwingman for correcting his earlier post, though it was no fault of his.

And, we certainly hope Congressman Udall's staff is busy burning up the phone lines with the folks at ABC. Given the pretty large difference in the amount of travel TOM Udall did as opposed to MARK, that's not a mistake you want to leave hanging out there (like it has been hanging since April 26).

[NoCoffman]

Nope. There is no Coffman press conference tomorrow.

[peterco]

If you care about the Denver vote today:
http://www.denvergov.org/election/results.asp

Tancredo's trips must be expensive or overseas, because almost 6K per trip is alot. Or maybe the flights are shipping illegals back.