Referendum C&D Debate, Round 1

According to The Denver Post, House Majority Leader Andrew Romanoff and House Minority Leader Joe Stengel squared off yesterday in a first round of debates on the Referendum C&D campaigns to ease the state's budget constraints, and neither has their talking points down. From The Post:

House Speaker Andrew Romanoff, D-Denver, portrayed a state without enough money to invest in its future. House Minority Leader Joe Stengel, R-Littleton, predicted a government run amok with uncontrolled spending...Without the money, Romanoff predicted overcrowded classrooms and pothole- pocked roads. Stengel said lawmakers would use the money to create new programs that would force higher tax rates in the long run.

If the Post is any indication, neither side has yet figured out how to get past the ambiguity of general statements and fears. Which is odd, since Romanoff particularly has the ammo he could use. Consider this story from The Rocky Mountain News:

Colorado's unwillingness to use state funds to buy vaccines during a shortage led to its last-place ranking in 2002-03 for childhood immunizations, a new report says. The nonprofit Colorado Health Institute reported that Colorado was on a par with most states in immunizing 2-year-olds until 2001, when there was a nationwide shortage of the vaccine for diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. "Other states used state funds to purchase higher-priced DTaP vaccine during the shortage, but because of budget constraints, Colorado did not," the report said. As a result, just 63 percent of Colorado 2-year-olds in 2002 were up to date on all their vaccines. That jumped to 68 percent in 2003, but the state still ranked 50th.

This is the kind of thing Romanoff should be talking about. Rather than just scaring people with tales of future woe, there are plenty of examples that he could point to about how the budget problems have already hurt Colorado. If Stengel wants to do more than scare-mongering himself, he would do well to come up with examples of places where funding was cut and programs continued to flourish. Right now, it seems, both sides are going to go the route of trying to be vaguely scary, which is not all that scary at all.

Comments

[hurtssogood]

A typical rookie performance from "citizen legislators". As much as I hate to say it, until we revise the way our state treats legislators (pay and staff) then we get what we deserve...ROOKIES!

[NoOne]

Our legislators don't deserve to get paid more. If you spend enough time with them, you'll realize that 90% of them only know issues that impact their small part of the state or pet projects and don't do enough research to know statewide issues and how different measures truly impact the State as a whole.

[Phoenix Rising]

Our legislators give up about 1/3 of their year to our service; how many of us have a job that we can just leave for the first 1/3 of the year and come back to it? They seem to be consistently under-staffed, to the point where lobbyist groups provide a majority of the staffing. All this for a 1/3-year salary.

It's no wonder you see a lack of knowledge...

Back to the main topic, I have to agree - Romanoff should be able to bat this out of the park every time he steps up to the plate. It's been his pet issue for years now, and he's got the numbers, statistics, and stories to do the job. In his defense, this is about the future; if Romanoff isn't speaking about the effects of non-passage, then he isn't addressing the issue. Unfortunately, that involves some not-so-rosy prospects, and the perception of a fear-based campaign. Sometimes the truth is painful.

[hurtssogood]

Phoenix, I couldn't agree more!

NoOne,
You made my point. If they were paid a semblance of a living wage then maybe they could dedicate more time to learning issues on multiple fronts. Why do all 120 days have to be in a row? I realize that it is constitutional but should we consider changing that? I'm not advocating for more acutal legislative days, but maybe break them up more. This would allow for members to spend more time than just weekends in their districts and perhaps truly get a pulse on where their constituents stand.

As it is now, we pack hundreds of bills into 120 days and many go unseen by the general public...makes for a feeding frenzy with the lobby. Besides, the only reason we meet for 120 days in the dead of winter is because in the early years so many legislators were farmers, and the winter time was the only time they could break away from the farm...oh how times have changed.

[NoOne]

Since when was $35,000 a 1/3 year salary? On top of that, they don't pay into social security, they get stipends for their commute and rent and a budget to spend out of for their office/campaign materials from donors and to hire legislative aides and workers! I'm not saying all of them can't devote their time and there are good ones out there, but they still don't need pay raises. This idea that they are all out their as public servants is crap too. The majority of them are out their for political or personal gain. To think otherwise of the majority of them, is simply ludicrous.

[Phoenix Rising]

The average salary in CO is now ~$90,000 per year according to something I heard recently. With average house prices in the $500,000 range, that doesn't seem like an irrational average.

Since when was $35,000 enough to pay someone to interrupt their regularly-scheduled lives? How do you compensate for that if you work a normal 40-hour/week job that can't live without you for 120 days?

[Phoenix Rising]

(to clarify, that housing average is probably not Colorado-only...)

[facts]

They get paid $30,000 a year. At least debate the merits of the actual pay.

[Phoenix Rising]

And more facts - I just found a 2000 median (not average) salary figure that states $47k per year in Colorado (much more believable and realistic than the $90k average...) Still, you're getting paid less than a year's salary to ruin a long-term job, assuming you're a regular worker.

As to merit - well, they're deciding the direction of the entire state, allocating budget funds... In most corporations, a group of people would be paid very well for those tasks.

[NoOne]

If any of you ever attend the budget committee meetings, we all very well know that the legislators don't actually allocated budget funds. They basically agree with what the budget committee staff give them. Its the staff who controls more than the legislators themselves.

[me]

In CO the average house price (while ridiculous)is closer to 300K. In my neighborhood, only drug dealers and professional athletes live in 500K homes. Just for the record.

[peterco]

My question for Stengel would be if he were majority leader, would the Republicans against it set the budget to TABOR limits even if Ref C&D passed. If he thinks that money would just cause prolifigate spending, he could reject using it and refund it anyway.

Wasn't there something in the Denver Post about TABOR refunds being shifted away from taxpayers and being spent on other things? I can't find it anymore.

[State Worker]

First lets get two things straight: I am a republican and I am against TABOR and Amendment 23 as they stand now. TABOR, during and after a downturn, does not allow the state to recover financially. They aren't telling you that TABOR bills in other states are not like Colorado's TABOR. Other states took one look at what's happening in Colorado and changed their bill. Even the founders of TABOR changed it in other states so that they could get it passed. However, TABOR supporters aren't talking about that yet they keep saying we shouldn't use a provision in TABOR to allow it to be postponed if the state is in a financial crisis. Referendum C does not get rid of TABOR nor change it. It simply postpones TABOR for 5 years so Colorado can use that money to recover and not cut any more services. If we do not pass C & D there never will be a surplus to get a rebate from. Why? Colorado won't be able to catch up. We are talking 10-15% state worker layoffs (those who say we have cushy jobs are ignorant given that our Health Benefits rank in the bottom of the US and know that we are behind the private sector in salaries now by 10%). We are talking cuts to State Parks and State Patrol. We are talking about community colleges being sold off or shut down. We are talking about more cuts to higher education and higher tuition.

It is scary what could be cut if C & D don't pass. Do you want to take a chance?

[Concerned Citizen]

Please someone, tell me why nothing is being said about the "D" amendmment having the usual coat-tailing of the fire and police. Seems we give these departments more and more all of the time, and they continue to coat-tail on any amendment which appears to be for something that citizens will approve. It's about time we stood up and let them earn their benefits like everyone else, especially at a time when so many are living on a fixed income. We have allowed them to have the best of all worlds, to the ability to own and operate businesses when on state time; sleep on state time so they can work a second job, and even pay them a premium for learning two words of a second language. $100 a month for saying one word is as ludicrous as giving them disability benefits the day after they go on retirement. The buck has to stop somewhere and I say it should be here and now---and the citizens should be told about these coat-tailing robbers so they know what they are voting for.

[hmm..... state workers]

a state worker once said to me "monday-we tell all about our weekend tuesday-we finish talking about the weekend wensday- we get our tools out and decide the job is going to need to be outsourced(to hard of a job) thursday-plan for weekend friday-talk about plans for weekend" he also showed me a total of 2000 hrs PTO (sick/vaca) every day includes breakfast and newspaper time, it's time to CUT THE FAT. stop paying for illeagels and reform taxes.

[No One]

I see a lot pity talk about the legislators and how hard it is to leave a job for 120 days. No one forces them to run for office and from what I have seen is that for the most part these legislators don't have to leave there current jobs to perform there duties as a legislature because they are lawyers. We need to find out where all of the taxpayers money is going and if it is legitimate before we allow them to take more. The government should have to live on a budget like most households do. That’s my two cents worth.

[Donna Murphy]

Somehow someone is going to have to convince me that the money that is going if I vote Yes to Referendums C&D is going to be used in a frugal fashion to correct the deficits now showing in the state funds. What percent is going to which topic for expenditure? Is that money going to be used to shore up the deficit or is it going to create NEW items that are on someone's wish list? And why do you think TABOR was created in the first place?? For the very reason that there was too much irresponsible spending, was my understanding. And where in Referendum C & D can we find that at the end of 5 years that we would not need to keep on using the tax money in the manner that the 5 yrs will accustom the lawmakers??